We were trying to sort out some duplicates, like the Swedish word “obduktion” which was used for both 29240004 | Autopsy examination (procedure) | and 168461002 | Postmortem examination (procedure) |
In all medical dictionaries and other reliable sources, these are synonyms, although it could be argued that postmortem (or post-mortem) is a broader term as it also encompasses the first examination on site by a pathologist.
We use different terms for the procedure proceeding the slab and the actual opening of the body, removing of organs and such. But both autopsy and postmortem has the same preferred Swedish translation.
Has this been discussed earlier?
I also added coroner to cultural concepts that cpoulöd be excluded from the international version.
I think it’s worth reporting 168461002 |Postmortem examination (procedure)| and descendants for review. I guess they could argue that a postmortem examination does not necessarily take place in a lab (Autopsy examination is a descendant of Laboratory procedure) and could include the examination of a corpse at a crime scene by a coroner (like you said in the other post, also not an international occupation), considering child 168463004 |Coroner’s postmortem examination (procedure)|. This makes no sense either since a ‘coroner’ is not necessarily a physician in some jurisdictions (in some places in the US the coroner is the county’s district attorney or even the sheriff), so this concept should not be a child of 79206001 |Specialized medical examination (procedure)|.
That said, 168464005 |Home office postmortem (procedure)| is definitely not an international concept.
In my experience reporting duplicates like these, is that CRS always tries to keep concepts if there is a minimal technical difference in meaning, even though in practice the two cannot be distinguished. This is why I think it’s best to request definitions be added.
I would agree with you Pedro. While people often use postmortem examination and autopsy interchangeably, at least in French, for the pathologist who does it autopsy implies cutting open the body while post-mortem examination can be limited to the superficial first examination of a body at the crime scene.
We (pathologists) add the term “virtual autopsy” when the body is not cut open but scanned to explorer the lesions to internal organs. This can happen when religious beliefs forbid a “real” open autopsy.
For the superficial post-mortem we will often say “preliminary post-mortem examination”, and this would imply only visual inspection was done at the crime scene without invasive techniques to explore inner organs beyond what might be visible due to the nature of the trauma.
I was never involved in criminal pathology, which in Belgium requires a specific diploma on top of your regular pathologist one so I’m not sure how it happens at the crime scene but I would guess that those preliminary constatations may be done at least in some countries by sworn technical police officers and who are not always doctors. Adding definitions is certainly good if only to make sure the concept used for the full autopsy of the kind that may be done in hospitals is the same in every country for cross-border data exchange.
People who are not dealing with dead newborns may not think of it but exchanging full autopsy reports is of paramount importance in genetic counselling. And there knowledge that you have a full report that looked at all the possible internal malformations versus that the parent allowed only a superficial examination of the child, that makes a huge difference. Because in the second case you don’t know all the malformations you might have missed and that might have orientated you toward another genetic syndrom thus another genetic risk for the other children to come.
If it’s possible to tag people on topics, one should tag Scott Cambell so you could have the opinion of an US pathologist.