# Increase range of has active ingredient to include microorganisms and natural products

**URL:** <https://forums.snomed.org/t/increase-range-of-has-active-ingredient-to-include-microorganisms-and-natural-products/518>\
**Category:** Drugs Extension User Group\
**Tags:** discussion, open\
**Created:** [October 15, 2025, 7:13am UTC](https://forums.snomed.org/t/increase-range-of-has-active-ingredient-to-include-microorganisms-and-natural-products/518 "2025-10-15T07:13:52Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![mcordell](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex014/user_avatar/forums.snomed.org/mcordell/32/325_2.png) [@mcordell](https://forums.snomed.org/u/mcordell)\
**Post date:** [October 15, 2025, 7:13am UTC](https://forums.snomed.org/t/increase-range-of-has-active-ingredient-to-include-microorganisms-and-natural-products/518/1 "2025-10-15T07:13:52Z")

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I couldn’t see a topic for this, but thought I’d kick off the discussion.  
I understand the requirement but I don’t think it’s the right path to go down. The requirement can be met with Substances (and even better if the “has biological origin” type property was introduced\*).

We have concepts like  
933466821000036101|Lactobacillus rhamnosus 10 billion CFU + Saccharomyces boulardii 7.5 billion CFU capsule (clinical drug)| in AMT.

And model these with a substance ingredient.  
In fact, 700441006|Saccharomyces boulardii (substance)| is a core substance.

_ **A substance in SNOMED CT is a material entity which is a collective** _ [here](https://conf.spaces.snomed.org/wiki/spaces/IAP/pages/132488223/Definition+of+Substance+in+SNOMED+CT)  
They are not molecules or atoms.  
They are not objects.  
Thus they are also not organisms. They are some unbound quantity of organisms.

That hierarchy is for the **names** of living organisms.  
These medicinal products contain some quantity of these.  
The units used for these products “billion CFU” suggest a count (rather than a collective).  
But mmol are also a count unit. But we can also measure chemicals in gram.  
Just as we can also measure these [quantities of microorganisms as gram](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/apMAAeSwsPlo1x1R/s-l1600.webp).

For all intents and purposes these are substances.  
Just as a jar of sesame seeds is not a jar of organisms.

Which brings us to the [extracts](https://forums.snomed.org/t/substances-for-extracts/276).  
”Garlic extract 240 mg capsule” - doesn’t contain “_Allium sativum (organism)”._  
Even if it wasn’t an extract and each capsule contained a whole clove of garlic - going down the path of **modelling parts of organisms is going to lead to a lot more pain** than benefit.

If you have a concept 720023002|Dandelion root| in the organism hiearchy. Then you also need to move 256297004|Dandelion pollen| and then what happens with 300910009|Allergy to pollen|

There is an outstanding ticket (many years old) to create a link between substances and organisms that can help with this. Particularly with to allow substances to be unambiguously defined and classify - based on the more unambiguous Linnean taxonomy of the organism hierarchy. (SI Jira is down, I’ll update with links when available).

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**Author:** ![ningram](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex014/user_avatar/forums.snomed.org/ningram/32/154_2.png) [@ningram](https://forums.snomed.org/u/ningram)\
**Post date:** [October 16, 2025, 9:32am UTC](https://forums.snomed.org/t/increase-range-of-has-active-ingredient-to-include-microorganisms-and-natural-products/518/2 "2025-10-16T09:32:41Z")

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May I copy in the team working on substances: @Elisase @krees @fashrafi @klilly